jehnt
on spike, buffy, flawed heroes, and differing interpretations of canon. 
13th-Jun-2008 06:50 am
You know when someone's view of canon is so different from yours that it just makes you go "bzuh? what show were they watching?" I had one of those moments several days ago, when I read something about how someone didn't like Buffy because she turned into a monster in later seasons and thought souled!Spike was a travesty because he didn't need to seek redemption, and that unsouled!Spike could have been redeemed and could have learned to be a good guy.

I'll address the Spike thing first: That happened in the show. Spike tried to rape Buffy, then thought, "oh, that was wrong of me, you know I bet I'd be less prone to making immoral choices if I had a soul." Unsouled Spike deciding to become ensouled was the moment for his character. Everything before that was buildup, and everything after was denoument. Yes, even his many sacrifices, because they all hinge around that moment, when Spike decided that he wanted to be a Real Person who could make his own choices, free of demonic influence and complete with a conscience. Like, I kind of fail to see how you could miss it. Yeah, souled!Spike was more boring than unsouled!Spike... but evil!Spike was even less boring. The better of a person Spike is, the more boring his character gets. It's just what happened in the show, and good!Spike didn't get spicier until Angel when their witty repartee brought some of the old spark back.

And then the thing about Buffy. This person's problem was that after the first few seasons, Buffy stopped being a good and caring person and started being crueler and more manipulative. Maybe it's just because I study politics and philosophy and we read a lot of Machiavelli et al., but I don't think a good leader can be anything but kind of monstrous. I want to say something lame like "you show me a good leader who is still a good and kind person and I'll show you a fraud," but I won't. Except I did. But that's basically my feeling on it. But the thing is, you can be a terrible, petty, selfish, cruel person and still accomplish things that are good and meaningful. And yeah, I think Buffy was occasionally petty, selfish, and cruel. But ultimately? She saved the world. A lot. And that's what counts.

Plus I really just like stories about how one has to sacrifice parts of oneself one might prefer to have in order to become a hero. And stories about flawed heroes. And really, anything where people aren't all happy and shiny. Though I should note here that shows can be happy and shiny without the people in them being that way (see: Arrested Development).
jehnt: (btvs - buffy)
Comments 
13th-Jun-2008 03:03 pm (UTC)
That is just mind boggling.

I loved the fact that Spike fought back for his soul in order to be more of a match for Buffy. It was the only thing he could give her. Unlike Angel, who was forced to take back his soul. The Angel (perhaps the real Angel) beforehand had no desire to ever own a soul. I think the main bulk of Spike's story was that his being changed didn't change his basic personality. Which is why Drusilla sought him out as an escape from Angel.

That being said, I hated the Buffy ship wars as much as the HP ship wars.
14th-Jun-2008 01:09 am (UTC)
Yes, exactly. Especially the bit about Angel being forced to take back his soul. I mean, one of the differences they set up between Angel and Spike WAS that Angel was only even remotely good when he had his soul whereas even unsouled!Spike was trying... in his own unique way. Of course, despite this I still kinda like Angel more. He provides such understated comic relief. Like in Dopplegangland when he's all "omg guys Willow has gone evil and is a vampire and is killing people!" and then sees Willow standing there and kind of waves and goes, "oh, hey willow." and then stands there a minute before being all "!??!?!????" HILARIOUS. The humorous moments with Spike are generally much less subtle.
13th-Jun-2008 06:14 pm (UTC)
...I always thought Spike wasn't actually trying to get a soul when he went to that shaman or whatever.

O_o
14th-Jun-2008 01:42 am (UTC)
No, I think he was. During some of the "crazy in the basement" scenes, he rambles on to Buffy about how he didn't know it would hurt so much and he went to find the spark so he could be the kind of man who -- and then he kind of trailed off, but I thought it was pretty clear. And the second time I saw the episode where he got the soul put in, it's pretty clear that his ambiguous dialogue asking about it was intentionally meant to mislead viewers as to what he actually wanted since it was right before the seaosn break and needed to be all dramatic. He goes on a lot about giving Buffy what she deserves -- which in "Beneath You" we learn means a man with a soul, but which seems far more violent in "Villains" and "Two to Go."
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